Recently in Sacrament Meeting, one of my favorite brethren in the ward gave an amazing talk. It was so good, so right, so inspiring. It was also so long. He started when he was supposed to, but after his designated 10 minutes were up, he went on for an additonal 15 minutes. Small enough problem, but he wasn’t the concluding speaker: There was yet to be a musical number, and a recently returned missionary.
The missionary was wonderful as well, but he suffered from the same “clock-management” issues that the other brother had – to the point where the bishop had to give him a tap on the shoulder.. All told, we got out of Sacrament Meeting 30 minutes late. I loved the meeting, I loved the speakers, and was filled.
But…
Both talks were wonderful, either one would have been great if the brother had been the sole speaker. I believe the Bishop did the right thing by letting them both go and (almost) complete their talks. However, it is a problem that I would like to address for a minute. (I’ll try and end on time.)
I am well aware that this is a challenge for many. Even apostles have struggled with this. Any of you that remember Elder LeGrande Richards probably remember his struggles with the clock. Elder David B. Haight talked about Elder Richards speaking in the Tabernacle – at that time they had installed a yellow, then red, warning light to alert the speaker that their time was up.
Brother LeGrand Richards, when the light was first installed, said, “Someone’s put a silly light up here.” He said, “I’ll just put my hand over it,” and kept right on rolling. (Link here)
There may not be a light on the pulpit to tell you when to sit down, or an orchestra that will start playing exit music like at the Oscars, but there is plenty of discomfort:
• There is a bishopric nervously shifting in their seats, wondering if they should tap you on the shoulder, skip the closing song, rearrange the remaining schedule, cancel the musical number, etc.
• There are also about 50 Primary, Relief Society, Priesthood, Sunday School, YM and YW teachers who are starting to worry, and wondering how to adjust. Remember, many of these teachers spent as much time preparing their lessons as you did for your talk. Time spent on their knees, time learning, time preparing, and now they find themselves trying to figure out how to cut a 40 minute lesson down to 20 – and still accomplish what they feel they need to do.
• There is an entire congregation who is looking at the clock, wondering what’s going on. I would like to say that we are all so engrossed in what is being said that we lose track of time, but it isn’t the case. In my example, I WAS initially engrossed in the talk, and the Spirit and power being conveyed, but that faded as the time became ridiculous, and those around em became uneasy – especially the little girl in front of me who kept turning around to look at the clock. Every 30 seconds.
• The same goes for Testimony Meeting. If time is up, it doesn’t matter how hard your heart is beating. Next time, listen for the prompting more carefully, sooner.
It is really tough to preserve a spiritual environment when you run past the designated time. There is a palpable change in the feeling and reverence in the room.
I have experienced this problem as a High Council speaker – occasionally the junior companion speaker would use up most of the time, leaving me the last few minutes to offer a simple testimony and sit down. I don’t think that’s what the Stake President has in mind when he sends the HC out to the wards.
In our area there was a discomforting trend that when a husband and wife were called to speak together, the wife would take most of the time. The husband would have to graciously pocket his talk, share a quick testimony, and sit down. We eventually abandoned this format, and mixed things up. We found that a sister was much less likely to go over time if the next speaker was not her husband. I don’t even want to delve into what that’s all about.)
I see it as a matter of respect, and/or a matter of experience and skill.
Giving a talk is scary for many people. Preparing one is difficult. Being able to gauge accurately gauge the length of your talk can be very difficult when you are in the middle of giving it.
Here are a few tips:
1) When the bishopric member asks you to speak, always ask “How long?”
2) Prepare your talk with that time in mind – don’t forget to provide time for an introduction and a testimony at the end. Also, if you are an emotional speaker, build in time for kleenex.
3) When you have you talk written, practice it – with a timer. Multiple times. There are very few speakers out there who can accurately gauge how fast time is moving . (Yes, write it down – even if you don’t plan on using the notes.)
4) Decide in advance which parts of your talk you can skip, should you be running late.
5) If it is just impossible to fit your talk into the assigned time, put the talk away, save it for another day, and start over.
6) Before you begin speaking, glance at the clock and determine a “stop” time. It is much easier that calculating how long you have been speaking every time you glance at the clock.
7) Use the timer on your phone. (preferably on vibrate mode.)
Some would make the case that they don’t prepare in advance because they want to be open to being “led by the Spirit.” Remember, even the General Authorities, who speak by the power of the Holy Ghost, write their conference talks in advance. You never see them stand up in conference and “wing it’. Their timing is remarkable. It takes time, effort, and practice.
So, if the phone rings and you get asked to speak, remember…it’s not all about you.
Preach, teach, inspire – and end on time!
(PS: If you have been on the receiving end of an endless talk, the proper response is: Thank you for your wonderful talk!)
(Originally published 2/27/12 as “He Keeps Going, and Going, and Going.)
Here
I realize this is an old thread, but I was looking online for this specifically. My husband was asked to speak on adversity just this past Sunday – with one week’s notice. He is a busy guy (aren’t we all), had to travel out of town mid-week, but still wrote a great talk – about 10 minutes. He knew he would be the concluding speaker. After two youth talks (one almost 20 minutes by a young girl we could barely hear, but she went on and on) then an intermediate hymn, the the first adult speaker who again went over, he literally had NO time left. Everyone in the meeting was already antsy and checking their watches. By this time we were actually already over by 4 or 5 minutes. He was gracious, stood and said “I would like to add my testimony to those who spoke today.” and that was it. It was really sad. I have been asked to speak on Easter. I will be the concluding speaker – after two youth speakers, a Primary song, two special Easter musical numbers by our choir, and another adult speaker. I’ve prepared a very short story . . . very short. And likely I will stand and “add my testimony” to the things that have already been shared. We seem to just pack Sacrament meeting . . . . maybe too much sometimes.
In situations like that, don’t be afraid to turn to the Bishop and ask, “What would you like me to do?” In some instances, he might want you to go ahead and give your talk, in others, might not.
Thank you for all the good suggestions !
I’d like to know when prayers fit into this as well. I recall something a few years ago about keeping prayers simple and short.
We had an opening prayer yesterday that was 10 minutes long- I am not kidding.
I was bad and opened my eyes a few times (I have a 3 year old- 10 minutes is too long to not peek at him) and noticed half the congregation was looking around like- is it still going??
Several years ago I was in a teacher improvement meeting in which – among other things – we were admonished to end our lessons on time. Then the teacher went ten minutes over herself! It’s funny now, but at the time I was pretty annoyed.
Anyway, I echo all of the sentiments about the importance of sticking to your alloted time. When you are actually in front of your audience and you’re cognizent of the time, the Spirit will direct you to know what to leave out or modify or how to get to your point so you can end when you should.
I think it’s rude to go over your allotted speaking time, or to bear very long testimonies, and it’s always the same people. The congregation do stop listening if that happens and then the spirit leaves. In the event of Sacrament meeting ending significantly early because of short talks, I think the following meetings should then start and end early and everyone can go home early.
Start a meeting on time…
End a meeting on time…
Start a meeting late…
End a meeting on time… ; )
Although I agree that time management is a big issue, I think content and word choices are as bad. It’s just as inconsiderate to waste people’s time having to listen to a poorly prepared talk that starts and ends on time. I just listened to a missionary farewell that I would have been embarrassed to have an investigator listen to. This person used the words “stupid” and “sucks” in a talk about the 4th Article of Faith. There were maybe two scriptures and one quote in a 25 minute talk…the rest was personal stories not really related. I certainly don’t expect perfect public speakers, but trying to be “real” or “cute” isn’t either.
During District & Branch conferences in my Asian mission, the missionaries would sit on the pew/chair behind two families; one english speaking and one native speaking. We would then jump back and forth translating “on the fly” depending on who was speaking at the moment, sometimes not getting it “right” because we didn’t always know the higher level vocabulary.
Fast forward 15 years and I was serving on the High Council in a European stake. It was so much easier to have a translator standing at the pulpit with me. The trick at this point was to only write half of a talk, in order to provide the translator sufficient time as well. Not to mention the challenge of writing a talk with minimal $5 words. You never knew for certain who your translator was going to be or his/her experience level.
As far as going over time, I don’t think there is anyone who doesn’t notice when a speaker goes over. Regardless of how nourishing the topic might be, it usually quickly looses the spirit as the listeners become ansy thinking about what should be next or wondering how many verses of the closing song we will sing. I know that when I sub as the Gospel Doctrine teacher I always try to determine the key points to be taught and what can be left out. I can fill a whole 3 hour block without a problem, but nobody wants to listen to me that long.
On the other hand, several years ago I attended a regional leadership conference with Pres. Hinckley, Elder Nelson and a member of the Quorum of the 70. My uncle and I sat together and enjoyed the short meeting. My uncle made the comment that he couldn’t believe how short it was, until we walked out of the building, realized the sun had gone down and nearly 5 hours had passed! Talk about being spiritually fed!!!
This is my first time on this site and the stories of lights on the podium to remind the speakers of the time, reminded me of a suggestion that a small trap-door with the Bishop in charge of the opening lever would be a good reminder to the speaker that his time is up xxx
According to wikipedia, “150–160 words per minute… is the range that people comfortably hear and vocalize words.”
So take your allotted time, multiply by 150 and you have the correct word count for your talk.
Spirit cannot be with with the disobedient.
I don’t think that being honest is judging. There is not “hate” in calling attention to a problem very common in a lot of wards. Of course we cover each other with love and charity. Accept criticism the way it is offered with love and concern and also concern for others who also have assignments to speak and also teach. Why should those who are affected by members going over time not be a concern for all of us. Going overtime is not being “directed the spirit.”
I’ve always heard that the spirit arrives on time and leaves on the scheduled time and I think Pres. Benson’s talk on pride gives reason not to take time that is not allotted to you.
I think Sacrament meetings are too long anyway. The most important part of Sacrament Meeting–of Sunday, of the whole week–is the sacrament. Everything else is gravy. I honestly think we could do with maybe one talk at most in SM; the focus of SM should be the sacrament. People are taught and get to talk in Sunday School and auxilary meetings. More worship, please!
BTW, I agree with the earlier post. I would be petrified to give a talk in front of any of you now, knowing that there are so many ways to fail and be judged. We’re all untrained volunteers in our church, and the willingness to try and to serve matters a lot to Heavenly Father. If He’s okay with someone’s fumbling efforts, we should be too. If your high standards cannot be compromised, then I suggest only experienced speakers be asked to speak in SM. But so long as people are pressured into public speaking, let’s cut them some slack. They’re our brothers and sisters in Christ.
Sacrament Meeting is shorter than it used to be! Before they made the 3 hr block, it was a 90 minute meeting, so actually it’s not really all that long. Yes, the sacrament is the most important part, but the talks can be important–not everyone gets to go to Sunday School, Priesthood or RS to learn–they are in the other auxiliaries and perhaps missing some good stuff.
We shouldn’t judge others, and not just on how they speak in church! We need to be more supportive–we’re all in this together.
The point you miss is anyone can look at the clock and be cognizant not to go past their allotted time.It has nothing to do if you are experienced, not a public speaker etc.Do your best in the time you are supposed to take..then sit down when your time is up.
There are some good points in here–I personally think public speeches should always be as brief as possible–but like the earlier commenter the long lists of do’s and don’ts are making my head spin. So many ways to fail! I would be petrified of giving a talk to a ward made up of people with the high standards spoken here. The real problem with public speakers in the church is that all of them are volunteers/voluntold, likely not very experienced, and just trying to do the very best they can. I think if we’re going to have such strict and high standards, we need to be a lot more okay with letting people turn down speaking assignments without guilt. But so long as we urge people to do something, in public, in front of a critical audience, I say we try to cut them some slack. They’re our brothers and sisters in Christ. We should be grateful they’re willing to try and fail in such a public way. It’s a sin of pride to take up all the allotted time, but it’s also a sin of pride to sit and watch someone do something wrong and think, “I could do so much better! Why can’t they do it right, like I do?”
Which is why I spelled out tips to help inexperienced speakers find more success, and fell more in control – because we are all learning, and we can all improve – and it is our obligation to try and improve.
I think this is a great article and a big help to many of us. Possibly we are meant to read it through a mirror, rather than a window.
I know it will help me with future talks. I tend to be a rather quiet and shy person, but put a microphone in front of me with the full attention of good righteous saints and I can see there have been times I have gone on way longer than needful. Maybe out of nervousness or pride or self promotion. The article along with many of the comments have been most helpful in seeing my weakness and I commit to try to turn in to a strength. Love you my brothers and sisters!!
When I first joined the High Council I asked how long I should speak and I thought the answer was inspired, “Brother, no one wants to hear you speak for more that 12 minutes.” That counsel has served me very well!
Also, I find that one full page of typed out, single spaced, 11pt font text equals about 5 minutes. So starting with that in mind and making my talk “contractable” helps a lot. I can then change to double space, bigger font (avoid the reading glasses), and change font colors to help me deliver.
My sweetheart is currently serving as Bishop for the second time. This time, when he asks members to speak, he hands them a piece of paper. It has the entire sacrament meeting outlined, who is speaking, their topic, their time to end, and all the music. Their name and assignment are highlighted. He uses it every time. The problem is that his counselors do not. I will not go into whether I think they should or not or whether he has spoken to them or given them counsel or direction. I try to leave all of his bishop work in the bishop’s office, because the truth be told, I really don’t want to know. It is so much easier to love the people when I don’t know all the details….and they should be able to feel that the office is a safe place to be and speak.
But I have to say, even when the paper has been given to our children, I am so grateful for his attention to detail. There are no questions as to his expectations. And the Sundays when he conducts, are amazing and spiritually uplifting.
I am LOVING the post and the replies.! I served at the Dist RSP whilst my hubby served as the Dist Pres for six+ years. I was the “sponge speaker” in our Dist. Conf. I was told 10min, but generally had to squeeze my talk to fit as little as 3 minutes, depending on how long the previous speakers went on (and there were times I was cut out completely) The goal was to give the DP 20min to present his talk. When we had members of our Area Pres (all GA’s) attending, the goal was to give THEM 20-30min. I was always amazed that members would ramble on for 15-20min on their 7 min talk, or 10min on a “short testimony” (which is thought to be 3-5min). The District leadership would then “splice and dice” on the spot in order to give the visiting GA the scheduled time. I have watched the visiting GA’s many, many times jot down their comments during the meeting so that they can reference points from other speakers in their well educated comments. Years of studying, teaching & leading give us ALL a tremendous capability to “speak by the spirit”. But…if you’re “not there yet” ….a well written and timed/practice talk is the best way to present your thoughts and testimony of gospel principles. And yes….the GC talks are written, timed and practiced before the GC broadcasts to make sure they fit the time allotments. A good example for all of us to follow perhaps.
As high council speaker (don snicker)I have always was prepared to not speak the allotted time of 15 minutes. Recently I agonized over a talk I was to give when I returned from vacation. Got up at 5 am Sunday morning to rehearse and then traveled 40 miles to the ward where I was assigned. Two sister missionaries were also on the program and were assigned 10 minutes. They both spoke for over 20 minutes. The Bishop announced that we would skip the intermediate hymn and invited me to speak. The time for the meeting to end was on the clock and I asked the Bishop to end the meeting. Why? Because others had prepared lessons for Sunday School would have been cut out if I spoke, compounding the problem. The lesson? Speaking longer than assigned is rude and dis obedient and places your ego before the Bishop and others needs. The Spirit of the meeting is dimmed by going over time. In my opinion, it isn’t an oversight, it is a sin to go over time. What sin? The sin of pride.
Paul, I think you’re right that sometimes it’s pride, but I’ve also observed some people are nervous about not being able to fill up their time–so they purposely try to stretch the talk out and then unintentionally go way over.
The best solution to that, of course, is to keep an eye on the clock and also (as others suggested) rehearse and time one’s talk ahead of time.
In the past, I have been a wife that takes up more time because my husband is speaking after me… but that is because he asked me to. That’s probably the case a lot of the time in the “wife before husband” examples. That said, I have realized the error of my ways, and know that my sweet, spiritual husband can indeed speak for his allotted time, and do a better job of it than I can. So, when we speak together, he gets his time. 🙂
It’s interesting that many seem to have overtime meetings, although I don’t know where any of you live. I have lived in the same city for 24 years and can only remember a handful of times that a sacrament meeting went overtime, and never more than 5 or 6 minutes. I completely agree that meetings should end on time.
I can’t say I’ve ever been in a ward that had chronic problems with going over, but I could certainly see how frustrating that could be. My biggest pet peeve with Sacrament Meeting talks are those that leave you wondering what the talk was supposed to be about. Some do this by spending half of their time talking about their life story instead of a brief introduction, some go of on so many tangents you have no idea what’s going on! I realize that as one of those nerdy people who lettered in speech/debate in school, not everyone has the same experience level (or comfort level for that matter) with public speaking. There are so many resources online that can help people. Also, every ward has a least a few great speakers who would likely be more than happy to read your talk for you and give some thoughts. The Bishopric gives a lot of though and prayer into the topics they assign the speakers; they receive revelation about what the ward needs to hear. It doesn’t have to be perfect, but if the speakers don’t put some basic effort into effectively communicating the topic, the message gets lost, and the Spirit in the meeting can go right along with it.
I might disagree! I feel so frustrated right now because I’m supposed to give a talk on Sunday, but was only asked last Sunday to speak. I’ve really been struggling to figure out what to speak about, and wish I had told the bishopric member that no, I can’t prepare a talk in one week. I don’t feel at all that he thought that much about having my husband and I speak, or he would have asked earlier.
AMEN!!! There is a common message with public speaking and its this. If someone goes over the allotted time the audience WILL and do lose attention of the speaker and the spirit or meaning goes by the wasteside. We have a GD teacher that simply feels as though he has to cramp every bit of the lesson in even @ the expense of the RS that meet right after Sunday School. As you mentioned, this happens frequently in Testimony meeting. You are absolutely correct that people need to adhere to the spirit and respect needs to be given.
I wish they would announce this over the pulpit. You talk about teachers that worry about having to alter their lessons plans that they have spent time preparing, let’s not forget about the organists that practice the hymns only to have them cancelled. Or those that prepare the musical numbers. I prepared a piano solo once and the first speaker took up the entire time (and then some), so of course, they cancelled my number that I had prepared to do.
Back in the day when the Bishop sat next to the control that raises and lowers the podium, I would extend my leg so that I could gently tap the speaker on their heel. Their reaction would be to glance at the clock and realize their time was up! It worked every time. When the last speaker for the days time is up, I guarantee you, your “ear valves” CLOSE, and the Spirit leaves. Check it out.
I think this is an interesting topic, but I’m a bit disapointed at how critical the post and comments are. Isn’t church supposed to be a safe and CHristian environment free from such heavy judgment and criticism?
I’m particularly disappointed in the writer’s inference regarding women taking longer when they’re husbands are scheduled to speak. There’s a misogynistic tone in that…most definitely NOT okay, and very disapointing, particularly from one who has held the position of being on a stake high council.
I have not visited your site before but will be unlikely to return just based on the negative overtone of this piece. Makes me not even want to attend church or even attempt to accept a call to speak in sacrament meeting if this is the kind of scrutiny I would undergo. (and come on….the missionary homecoming..cut the guy some slack…people traveled to hear him speak and its not his fault the first speaker went over. If I traveled a great distance to hear my missionary relative or friend speak (after not seeing him for 2 years) about the most important and exciting work in the church, I certainly would not want him cut off.
Flexibility is important in life. If you don’t want to stay to hear it then leave, but don’t pull out the judgment, criticism, and all those qualities that supposedly are the opposite of what a mormon is supposed to be.
Stating what is a fact in my experience is not misogynistic at all, merely pointing out a reality that our ward has struggled with. I have written plenty of things about men that you could deem to be “misandric,” so I guess I am evil, but fair.
Other than that, I appreciate you illustrating out how to effectively pass judgment on someone else. You are obviously very good at it.
Good catch! That was a fly by until you pointed out the obvious venom. I need to be more on my toes. Well handled!
No, actually, the missionary didn’t use any extra time, there was just enough time left a testimony, and that’s all he did, just took a couple of minutes. I was wanting to hear more.
I guess if you choose to judge the MMM site by your impression of this one piece, then you’ll be missing out on what the rest of us believe to be an opportunity to enjoy his generally humorous perspective. And if you haven’t read any of his other posts, then you’re misjudging his intent altogether, as I see it. Being very familiar with his posts and perspective, I believe you’ve mostly missed the point.
This was not an angry post. It was an illustration of what happens sometimes. Followed by suggestions for speaking in sacrament meeting that pretty much everyone should be able to use. He said this brother gave an awesome talk – and it’s someone he admires – not some schmo. But the brother shouldn’t have gone on so long. This is not a difficult concept. The GA’s speak within their allotted time; we should be able to follow their example. That’s all. The missionary got the shaft because he didn’t have the time, but also still went on. With a great talk no less. The bishop has the ability to (and should) determine the meeting ending. The speakers didn’t intentionally disrespect the Sunday school and primary teachers. But you have to admit that wasn’t the best thing to do, and someone’s “individual” interpretation of the Spirit doesn’t override the Bishop’s presiding the meeting. Just how it goes.
And about the sisters speaking with their husbands – you seriously haven’t seen this before? Our ward also quit pairing couples speaking together. I think there’s some truth to what he wrote, not because I hate women. I think it’s good to split them for the same reason they don’t both pray in sacrament meeting. It’s also a strain on those with children to have to get someone to watch their kids. AND for both to prepare talks the same week.
And if you’d take the opportunity to enjoy MMM’s other posts, although it appears you’ll only take this one, then you’ll realize that if there’s any slant at all – I can assure you that the male behavior is far more of a target. Any comment towards sisters is undoubtedly in jest.
I would recommend you reconsider. But wish you the best.
My uncle was serving as a temple president. He knew a member of the 70 personally. The member of the 70 was asked to give a talk in General Conference. He prepared and gave the talk. He received a letter from the First Presidency a few days later that basically said “Thank you for your time and effort in preparing and giving your talk. We all uplifted and edified by what you taught. BUT you went over by 30 seconds. Please don’t let it happen again.” Now, I’m totally paraphrasing because I didn’t actually read the letter but if the First Presidency will tell a member of the 70 that he went over 30 seconds in General Conference, I think we all need to be considerate of everyone at church, especially when it comes to time. We all have a job to do at some point in the 3 hours and we will be blessed by keeping our brothers & sisters in mind. Thank you MMM for the reminder. I couldn’t agree more!
That’s funny–to be told they went over by 30 seconds. However, I do know there is a VERY STRICT time frame for speakers for General Conference–since it is broadcast not only via the internet, cable/satellite, etc, but because it’s broadcast live on TV on KSL. It HAS to be kept within the 2 hr slot–no exceptions. Years ago, I used to sing in what was called Mormon Youth Symphony and Chorus. We had the wonderful opportunity to sing in a conference session once a year (in the Tabernacle), and I could see a digital ‘countdown’ on the podium. If I recall, the apostles were given 20 min, and the Seventy, 11 min. Even for our songs, depending if someone was a bit over or sometimes short, we had to have 2 versions of the closing hymn–one that was shorter and one that was a bit longer. Even then, if it was a bit on the short side, the broadcast showed the brethren, etc. as they were leaving their seats. If it went too close to the 2 hrs, you didn’t see any of that–went right to commercial on KSL.
I remember one time LeGrand Richards getting up and he handed his cane to someone in the First Presidency and told them to just hit him (or poke him) when his time was up–he wasn’t going to pay attention to time or a red light. lol He was such a funny man.
I love this post–a good reminder! It’s really hard at times in our ward, when it’s actually a member of the bishopric who is speaking last and goes over–knowing full well when they stood up to speak that the time was short! They should know better. Then, our Gospel Doctrine teacher doesn’t want to be shorted on his time, so he goes over, and then it invariably ends up being my Sunday to teach in RS, and we HAVE to end on time since the Primary needs the moms to pick up their kids–can’t have them running around the chapel, especially when another ward is still in Sac. Meeting.
One caveat: If the Bishop stands up and wants to take the rest of the three-hour block, that is his prerogative, and we should be supportive. They are his keys, and it his “his” meeting.
Perhaps, but seriously, ‘his’ meeting is only part of the block. If he’s , he’d would not do that. The handbook outlines what a 3 hr block should consist of and it’s certainly not a 3 hr sacrament meeting! I don’t believe that has ever been the intent of the block. General Conf sessions are not that long! lol My point in what I initially said, regarding the bishop or couns. being the ones who make the meeting go over, is that it’s disruptive to other meetings, which are important. Supportive of his authority or not, I think there would be an uproar–from the children (and the parents who are trying to keep them quiet, etc. for a 3 hr sac. mtg.
Good point, MMM, but not sure my good Bishop would ever think it is ‘his’ meeting!…but I catch your drift! LOL
Excellent post. Now how do we get this information to the folks who need it and are not reading this online? I so agree that running over is not good, nor is it respectful of all the others who are now affected with their lessons. I think ending on time is a skill the bishopric needs to learn–it is not fair for the last speaker left to deal with it; he/she has also prepared, and I do not think the last hymn should be cut either, music is an important part of worship. I wish we all had the lights at the pulpit, but we don’t. Maybe the conducting officer can have some pre-made cards that can be handed to the speaker if they run over, saying, one minute please, wrap it up! Just sharing this article in the ward could really help!
My pet peeve is wasting my time and the Lords time by making excuses for a bad cold, a bad voice, preparing too late, or avoiding the counselor who assigns the talk. This can take up 1/2 the speakers allotted time. You are a tool for the Lord when you speak. Do the best you can, never apologize, just teach and edify. Also, the man to follow me last time said he didn’t have a 15 minute talk and would I please go over on my time. Then he spoke for 20 minutes for a 15 minute talk. Let’s look at clouds from both sides now.
I feel sorry for missionaries when family and friends have come to hear them, but the previous speaker(s) leave just enough time for a Testimony.
Years ago Elder Holland and his wife were spontaneously visiting our ward (his wife’s parents’ ward). At the end of Sacrament Meeting he was asked to speak, with less than 10 min. to closing time. He said to the congregation (some of whom grew up with him) that he was told there were two qualifications for his present calling: he knew his name, and, that he could tell time. He assured us that he had met those qualifications. I was hungry for more, but the meeting ended on time. (What a great example!)
I was happy for the reminder of LeGrand Richards covering the yellow and or red light at General Conference. But the story goes a little farther. The next Conference as he was speaking and the light went on he said, ‘There’s that light again, in the name of Jesus Christ Amen.’ We had to wait for the Ensign or Improvement Era to read the last of his talk. I laughed and laughed but knew he had been talked to about the time limit. And I loved him even more.
Read this, learn from it, and don’t be too hard on yourself or others.
the best comment yet!
great comments, but this is the best yet! Thanks, Marie
I could have written this post. I agree 100%. SO IMPORTANT!!!
Its so simple ..People please pay attention to the time.. It’s easy. Did Jesus Wear a watch when he gave the Sermon on the Mount?
I once had the very unhappy opposite experience, of arriving to give a talk and being told that both youth speakers and the other adult speaker had called in sick and I had the entire time.
I did my best to fill it. It was lame.
In our ward, it is requested that talks be written out for the deaf interpreter. We have a hearing individual trace the talk, while the deaf member interprets for other deaf members of the congregation. This leads to some difficulties when a speaker has to shorten his or her talk because someone else went over. Side conversations take place about where to skip to in the text. Everyone accepts this in good grace, but it would be nice if speakers did not have to resort to this.
On the point of writing out a talk, it was a hard adjustment to make to sticking to a script but I’ve found that if you write the talk and practice it, you will not sound like you are reading it mechanically, and you will be close enough to the script by glancing down from time to time.
Thank you MMM. As a father of 4 young children, reverence in Sacrament meeting is an ongoing challenge. When Sacrament meeting goes over it becomes a real challenge. The kids get increasingly restless and it is not fun. Please end on time!!!
In one ward I was in for about a year, I was given a list of things to do and not to do- many listed here or in the comments. This was very nice to have clear guidelines, and I noticed that we rarely had a talk go overtime, and the quality of the Sacrament meetings was among the best of any of the many wards I have lived in. Preparation brings the Spirit much better than winging it.
While I agree with everything you’ve said (this is one of my major pet peeves), I’ve also run into situations, both on my mission and since I’ve gotten back, where I’ve asked “How long?” and have been told “Oh, 10 to 15 minutes.” I reply with, “Well do you want 10 or 15?”.
As someone who values being respectful of others time and wanting to do as I am asked when it comes to church callings, it’s frustrating when I’m not given a clear limit. I feel bad when sacrament ends early when I speak because I could have given a better talk, and I feel bad when it ends late because I probably talked too long… ugh.
We do have a red light for speakers going over time. The branch presidency doesn’t often have to use it just because it is there.
When I was a new member I would do exactly as the suggestions given. I wrote and timed my talk by practicing. A few years ago a new member came up to me and said “Sister Smith that was such a wonderful talk you gave last week, but you are too knowledgeable to be reading from notes.” Wow! There was a lot of pressure in that statement. It’s nice to be thought of as knowledgeable, but that has just come from diligence. So I think of him every time I prepare a talk and I go to the podium with a few thoughts but the base of my talk in my head just coming out, in the end by inspiration. My inspiration always runs out before my time has expired.
I always thought the women went first as a form of good manners and courtesy because she was a woman.
When I was stake executive secretary, I was occasionally assigned to invite speakers for stake conference. I would stress the time limit and ask the speaker to practice their talk before to make sure they could express their thoughts in the time alloted. Many speakers still went over and that would cause the stake president to cut short his comments as the concluding speaker. Personally, while everyone’s comments are important, I really wanted the person who holds the priesthood keys for the stake to have all the time he planned in his preparation.
As far as having only men be the concluding speaker, that practice is only culture and tradition. Our stake president recently encourage the bishoprics and branch presidencies to have sisters serve as concluding speakers. The sisters have just as much wisdom to share as the men, maybe more. In our branch, we have followed that direction and have been very blessed by our stake president’s counsel.
Twice I have been asked to speak in Stake Conferences, and was the last speaker before the Stake President. I was not instructed as to how long my talk was to be, only that I was the “accordion” speaker and was to end at 25 minutes to the hour, so there was time for the Stake President and a closing song. Maybe telling people that they should be ended at a certain time might help them to watch the clock a little better. I have never had trouble taking up too much of my allotted time, except when my husband is the last speaker. 🙂
I speak so often in other settings, I am rarely asked to speak in sacrament. My Bishop is great about that. I have no qualms about doing it if asked though. and He knows that.
You didn’t mention, but some of the comment have mentioned it that a long sac mtg is hard on little kids. I find even, that I start to get angry with the speakers when they go over. There have been a few times when we have just got up and left after 20 mins past time. Our kids could not take it any more.
If anger enters in, that is an entirely different, and more serious issue.
I think you make wonderful points and I heartily agree! One point you made hits on a long-standing, sincere question I have, and perhaps you can help shed some light…
“We found that a sister was much less likely to go over time if the next speaker was not her husband.”
My question…is having a sister speak first and then a brother finish, prescribed protocol or just church culture?
I believe it is just Church culture. If anyone can source the subject – either way – I would love to see it.
Our ward (Oregon) no longer follows that plan by default. At least 60-70% of the time the woman speaks last I’ve noticed over the last year.
No source, but my ward has broken that cultural tradition. Women speak last as well as first here. (At least they have, we just had a Bishop change, so we will see if it continues.)
Also, a husband/wife combo does not usually speak in the same meeting. Husbands and wives do not pray in the same meetings either,
We sometimes have a husband and wife speak, sometimes have two or three women speak (esp. If they are serving in a presidency together but not necessarily), sometimes have two or three men speak (again esp. If they are serving in a presidency but not always) and sometimes have an unrelated man and woman speak. I don’t think there is a rule, just traditions. I think if the “going over” is by a couple of minutes, no big deal, but if you are taking significantly longer than allotted then it is improper for so many of the reasons already listed. But I like to remind myself that we are all still learning and we all have unique talents and gifts and can learn from each other, good and bad. That is part of the having an unpaid clergy. :). And it really is a blessing to have opportunities to speak and teach so often. I know it has helped many people personally, spiritually and professionally.
While I do not have a source I can say I was one of 3 speakers who were all women in a sacrament meeting ( at Christmas time). I have attended sacrament meetings that were all women speakers. I have also attended sacrament meetings where only brothers spoke that was not a high council Sunday. I would tend to agree with the culture statement.
As far as I know, priesthood shall speak after sisters, but I can’t give a reference because there is a new handbook after I was released. My stake president taught me the day I was set apart as Bishop the second time, that if the presiding officer speaks, no one speaks after him. He did this, because the conducting counselor shared his testimony after the remarks of the stake president. So it seems to be the order of priesthood.
Completely agree about no one speaking after the presiding authority speaks. Still not convinced about the gender order…
I think usually no one speaks after the presiding authority, but I think there can be exceptions. Our stake president felt prompted to bear testimony in the middle of our ward testimony meeting a few months ago, and he made it very clear that we could and should still stand and bear our testimonies. (He resides in another ward and was visiting and presiding in our ward that day.). But I think that would be a rare occurrence.
It’s culture. I’ve been in wards where only women speak on a given Sunday or where the final speaker is a woman. There still is a tendency for men to be the final speakers but it’s certainly not doctrine or official church policy. I’m all for having more women be the final speakers on days without visiting officials (or when the bishop is supposed to address the congregation).
My mom told me that when she was a girl women didn’t even speak in Sacrament meetings. At one time the Handbook may have said that a priesthood holder speaks last; I remember being told that the Handbook not that long ago stated that a priesthood holder should say the opening prayer. But the current handbook does not stipulate anything about if men or women should be in a designated place in the line up for prayers or speaking. Some things are cultural hold overs from when things were to be done a different way. The current Handbook specifically says that having a husband and wife do the opening and closing prayers should be avoided. The only thing the Handbook currently says about speakers is that if a presiding authority (bishop or stake presidency member) is speaking, he goes last. But the idea that a man should speak last because he has the priesthood is not supported by anything in Handbook.
Amen to that.
Our ward mixes up genders and order all the time. Youth speakers DO always go first, when we have them (nearly every week), and frequently a woman is last. High Council speakers are always last. I’ve noticed the Bishopric assigns the longer talk to the last speaker (after the intermediate hymn or musical number), so they usually have someone more confident speaking then. We still see husbands/wives speaking in the same meeting on occasion, but it’s usually like a missionary couple, or someone new in the ward perhaps. But there’s no gender-bias here; in the last couple to speak that WASN’T a missionary couple, the sister was the concluding speaker.
And I agree that going over upsets EVERYONE. Even the nursery is affected: kids are more antsy when they arrive, the whole schedule is thrown off, and the kids are more likely to act up. Children thrive on routine. Consistency is so important. I have one child in nursery who knows exactly when it’s time to go have snack; she gets very upset if we change it. That said, too-short Sacrament meeting also messes up nursery, as we run out of things to do before it’s time to leave!
Several years ago our ward had a sacrament meeting that was over two hours long! The youth had just gotten back from trek and every youth and leader bore their testimonies/told stories about the trek. Luckily we only had one little one at the time.
Our bishop was released the next week and the new bishop liked to kid that if he ever wanted to be released all he had to do is have a two hour sacrament meeting as that had worked so well for the previous bishop. 🙂
I couldn’t agree more. No matter how good the talk is, when it goes overtime, people stop paying attention and the reverence is lost. We have sacrament meeting at the end, so if we go overtime, no one misses their other class times, but it does mean that we go beyond 3 hours, which is plenty long enough for church in most people’s books. And Valerie is exactly right in saying that it’s selfish to take more than your allotted time, as if your preparation is more important than anyone else’s. Thanks for the great tips on how to prepare so you can avoid being the dreaded “overtime speaker.”
I have never liked talking in Sacrament Meeting so have never understood people who can go on and on and on. I agree that it absolutely takes away from the spirit. It also takes away from the spirit when you teach a lesson and instead of teaching the lesson you teach the lesson with examples and stories from your life. Teach the lesson from the scriptures and save your stories that I don’t care to hear. I want to dig into the scriptures and try to learn something while at church.
I think personal stories are one of the most effective ways to teach the truths of the Gospel. Try and find a General Conference where the prophets don’t use that technique.
I disagree that personal stories are one of the most effective ways to teach, personal testimony is much more effective, but there is a very fine line between the two. The truths of the Gospel are really effective in and of themselves. I do agree, however, that adding a personal story to a lesson or talk that has been prepared first, with the truths of the Gospel, can usually be effective. My problem is when the lesson or talk is all about the person and them sharing their stories and not so much truths of the Gospel. That happens A LOT in my ward. Some of the best lessons I have heard, there has not been one personal story shared!
I think there is a difference between telling a personal story just to be entertaining and telling a personal story to emphasize a gospel truth. In the first the teacher is just using up time or grand-standing. In the second the teacher is trying to deepen understanding.
Personally, I teach primarily out of the scriptures and use a limited amount of stories. I use stories because I feel like people learn differently and while working through scripture is effective for some, for others an example is better.
Also, some topics are harder to teach using scriptures and if I tell a personal story it opens up the class for others to do so as well. These can be very meaningful moments – especially in creating a stronger brother/sisterhood.
At the end of the day though, teaching is a skill and a talent. Most members of the church teach with very little background or instruction in doing so. It’s stressful to them and for the most part they have no idea on the more technical aspects such as structure, pacing, tension, visual clues, etc. (or for that matter how to pull the most out of the scriptures) Regardless, they do their best and so I hesitate to be too critical when someone struggles or takes short cuts.
I agree.I don’t think you should tell personal stories at the expense of sharing scriptures,gospel doctrine or the core message of the lesson..but I think a well placed experience or personal testimony builder that coincides with the topic, can enhance the lesson and maybe touch someone who has had a similar experience, or needs to feel the spirit of your experience,or the lesson learned.
I love the personal stories! Such an effective teaching method!
My mission president (Joseph Fielding McConkie) had us do talks in zone conference. We were to prepare a 5 minute talk with a specific scripture as the topic, use a personal experience as that illustrated application of the principal taught in the scripture, and testify that we knew that principal was true (not just a canned “I know the Church is true statement”). A good balance of both scripture and personal experience sealed with a testimony. And if someone went past the 5 minute limit, they were told to sit down!!
I hate it when we get out of church early. Said nobody, ever.
Actually we had a stake conference that did get out 20 min +/- early, all the talks were great, very spiritual and believe it or not there were grumblings that what was the stake president thinking by not going the full two hours…..can you believe it?
When my grandfather was in the Mission Home in Salt Lake preparing for his mission, they were told (family legend says it was by J. Golden Kimball), “There are only a handful of people in this church who can speak for over twenty minutes and still have anything left to say, and none of you are any of them.”
Grandpa Knight grew up to be a very popular, highly sought-after speaker there in the Ogden, UT area — but he never spoke for more than twenty minutes at a time.
It’s really hard when Saturday night session of stake conference ends 30-40 minutes late, too. Not only is it evening late, but you end up having to pay the babysitter extra or skipping out on a treat after because you need to rush home.
I was a newly-called councilor in our bishopric many years ago. It was our ward conference and I was assigned to be one of the main speakers, the other being a councilor in the stake presidency. I fell into this trap, that of preparing a fantastic talk and getting so wound up while giving it that I used all the allotted time, giving the other speaker just time enough to barely relate what he was going to speak on, and then close with his testimony. Once I sat down, and realized what I had done, I couldn’t apologize enough. I’m still haunted by the experience. It taught me THE LESSON–watch the clock, and adjust! I’m pleased to reveal that I never again repeated the experience. Lesson learned!
I remember when I almost enjoyed sacrament meetings that went long. Now, with three young children, sacrament meetings already seem long, so I almost start perspiring when speakers go over. Our building switched to sacrament meeting last, which is wonderful for almost everyone, but compounds our stress dealing with our overtired children… and then it gives the speakers leave to go half an hour over because there aren’t any other classes.
I know I have the wrong attitude about this, but it is already so hard to feel the Spirit while wrestling children, and extending that wrestling time makes it even more difficult to be edified. (This is especially tragic because I KNOW the speakers are wonderful and have a lot of knowledge to share.)
In any case, I agree! Timing my talks is also something I need to continue working on!
Katrina… I couldn’t agree more. Now that I have two small children (my 3-year-old is *particularly* awful during our 1pm sacrament meeting, since she’s usually sleeping during that time), I have instituted a personal policy of getting up at 5 after the hour (when the speakers are supposed to be done) and leaving the meeting to take the kids for a walk. They are already at the end and if we’re not singing the song by then they just start to melt down. As you said, I’m already getting so little out of sacrament meeting as it is. Sometimes I am on the verge of years by the end of the meeting. So if the speakers are going over, I literally opt out.
If, as you seem to confirm at the start, the Spirit was testifying of the truth of the content of the talk throughout it, what part(s) would you have deleted to stay within the time allotted? Granted, the General Authorities plan and tend to stay within their allotted time, but do you seriously think that if the Spirit were testifying the truth of a talk to those presiding and conducting even General Conference, that they would tell the speaker to shut up and sit down? It is the calling, and duty of the Presiding Authority in any meeting to govern the conduct of the meeting as the Spirit inspires, moment by moment. If the Spirit did not move your Bishop to cut off the speaker, perhaps it was because the Spirit was causing D&C 68:4 to ring more loudly in the Bishop’s mind than the ticking of the clock. Such a criticism of the speaker, and implicitly, the Presiding Authority, makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up. It’s scary. Perhaps the Spirit acted upon the Speaker and the Bishop knowing that following talks (and lessons?) were not as well prepared as we would like to assume.
The Bishop expressed regret to me later that day – he felt bad that so many other people who had prepared lessons were poorly served because he hadn’t handled it correctly. Hope that helps the hairs on your neck calm down. (You would have had to have been there for your hyperbolic conjecture to be valid.)
The Spirit does not prompt people to go beyond what the presiding officer planned and assigned. Conducting meetings by the Spirit includes the planning of who speaks, how long they are assigned, and the topic also; it is not just when it is “game time” that the Spirit is acting on the bishop in the conduct of a meeting. When people ignore what they have been assigned to do, then they are not being acted upon by the Spirit. By your logic, I could get up and read the Book of Mormon cover to cover and we would still be there Monday morning because the Spirit is testifying that it is true. There is a practical application that goes beyond the primary teachers who have to cut lessons short to compensate. Often another ward is starting a sacrament meeting half an hour after the prior ward, so going over cuts into the Spirit of their service as well.
I do remember once in general conference a speaker (a 70 whose name I can’t remember) did go over a little and the organ did start playing. So yes, even the prophet does sometimes give a speaker the yank.
I have, on occasion, gone over the alloted time in a talk or lesson.
Sometimes the Spirit is there teaching with me when I’m giving talks or lessons. I do try. But my experience is that when I start to go over time, the Spirit leaves.
There are undoubtedly times when a talk should go over the alloted time. My suspicion is that the Spirit would let the congregation know that this is a *very special talk* they need to pay attention to.
It doesn’t sound like that happened here.
While we’re at it, can we dispense with all the inane, irreverent and mostly unfunny openers about how much an individual hates speaking and/or the hijinx of avoidance that insued after they realized the bishopric counselor was callling to ask them to speak?
Hallelujah!
like
I hear you.
And yet … for some nervous and inexperienced speakers, that irritating “fluff” is a way to settle themselves down so they can get through the rest of the talk without fainting. They are trying, in their clumsy way, to connect with the congregation. The correct response is to chuckle politely at their lame humor.
If the speaker is obviously not all that nervous and inexperienced, then of course the correct response is to Force-choke them back to their senses. It’s why I sometimes make a point of sitting at the front of the congregation; less chance of getting my aim off and accidentally Force-choking the bishop or music director by mistake.
too funny vader.
Vader, thank you!! How ignorantly arrogant I was for judging the opening fluff. I may get nervous, but I’ve been blessed with the ability to conceal it. I will not be irritated anymore with fluff but work on a charitable attitude.
I served a mission in 1995-96 back when we had the six discussions. We were supposed to teach each discussion within one hour. It is amazing what would go awry the second we went over one hour. 😉
As for talk content, I was once taught the most important aspects of any meeting are (from most important to least): 1. The commitments you make; 2. What the Spirit teaches you; 3. What the speaker says. 😉
By the way, why is it no longer protocol to have husbands and wives say the prayers in the same meetings?
As I understand it, that varies from ward to ward, but in many (non YSA/married student) wards, it has been dispensed with to avoid making the single members of the ward feel excluded from the proceedings. I see it as a welcome act of compassion.
From Handbook 2:
Members of the bishopric should avoid the pattern of having a husband and wife pray in the same meeting. Such a pattern might convey an unintentional message of exclusion to those who are single.
Oh, I like that logic!
I’m sorry, but I’ve got one more sorta-related question: what happened to prayer meetings immediately before Sacrament meetings for all the participants of the meeting? Or was that just my ward growing up?
As far as I know, they went away. I always liked prayer meetings…
I do the bulletin for our ward, and when I asked about the reason for no couples doing the prayers in one meeting, I was told that they chose individuals because then the single person or those whose spouses are not active would not feel uncomfortable.
A.MEN. What a waste of time when people do that. Just get up and start your talk and make it uplifting from the very beginning instead of trying to be funny.
Hugh B Briwn said that for a talk to be immortal it doesn’t have to be never ending…
Excellent list for sacrament meeting preparation. May I humbly add printing out a copy for any deaf members of the congregation (for those wards that do not have an interpreter)
Boy,did you hit my thoughts right on the head.This has always been a huge pet peeve of mine.I totally start getting anxious and tune the person out (whether they be a speaker,teacher, etc) when they are disrespectful enough to go over the allotted time. I have seen speakers not even glance at the clock once as they are speaking,and be determined they are going to give every single word of their too long talk,lesson etc,no matter what.I think not only is it inconsiderate,to those who are also on the program,or needing to leave when the class is over..but it does also suck the spirituality away.I agree with the other posters comments about it shows a selfishness and lack of respect to others.I think a Bishop,Relief Society president or whatever the case may be, should remind the speaker,teacher etc what time they have and that they are to finish their remarks within that time.I have OCD and when this happens, I literally get so I cannot bear it and have at times almost got up and left as the stress of it gets to me,that they are ignoring the time,and being so self consumed.Same for “testimonies” that ramble forever and are travelogs or therapy instead of testimonies.We all need to examine our words,messages and timing and decide if they are appropriate and timely for the setting we’re in.
Stealing time is one of my pet peeves. When I was a Stake Executive Secretary hosting many Stake Conferences with a GA in attendance, every one of them asked me, “When do you want me to end?” Not one of them ever over-ran.
The conducting officer has the responsibility to let speakers know it is time to sit down when the run over their time. That so few actually have the courage to do so it pitiful.
I slightly disagree with writing out the talk. Ideally, you should be so familiar with your topic, and so comfortable presenting it, that you can dispense with extensive written notes. I always write an outline for the talk itself, but print out any direct quotes and scripture references so I can quote them verbatim. Having an outline, rather than a completely scripted talk, gives you the opportunity to lengthen or shorten your comments as necessary, while avoiding the dreaded ‘reading of the talk’. I much prefer hearing (and using) a natural speaking cadence to having somebody stare at their paper and read the whole thing. And don’t even get me started on the cultural superstition of ‘public speaking is scary.’
I write it out to really dig in and work out my wording, and get a fix on the timing. Then I trim it all down to a few bullet points and direct quotations, much as you do. I agree that a written talk is not as inviting, but some people lack that skill set.
My Stake Pres. tells everyone that they are to write out the talk and provide it a couple days in advance so the Spanish translators can have a look at it. He tells them it is to be 3 pages long typed single space- that is how long he wants them to speak. If a speaker practices four or five times, they will know what they are saying and won’t have to “read” it, just glance at the page occasionally to see where they are. We had a general authority visit our stake two weeks ago and he said they have to do the same thing- provide a written copy three weeks in advance, and they never sound like they are “reading” it.
Wow! Never heard of that before. Great way to screen for content as well.
That would be great if our assignments came 4 weeks in advance. We generally get from Sunday to Sunday. Months notice works great in large wards.
BLESS YOUR STAKE PRESIDENT!! I’m not a Spanish interpreter, but an ASL interpreter, and I would give my right leg to have 3 days to look over and work on talks before having to stand in front of the Deaf congregation and interpret them on the fly. That kind of advanced notice would definitely allow the message to be so much more clear and actually have a spiritual impact on all the members receiving it. That’s something that should be in the handbook…in my humble, female, won’t ever have any influence on what’s in the handbook, opinion.
I am an NZSL interpreter and having any prep at all is AMAZING. When I was interpreting at Church it was always really hard because people speed up when they close their talk and trying to get that across can be comical. It is even worse when it is a young man talking and they fit what feels like a 10 minute talk into 5 minutes.
It sounds like your stake pres is amazing. My husband’s first language is Spanish and has been called upon to interpret but most people speak so fast that he manages to get every third or fourth word and forget trying to translate scriptures. When I suggested that the speakers provide their talks to the interpreters (I always write mine down and practice to make sure I am within the time limit) my husband made the suggestion and was told no they didn’t want to ask the speakers to do that. Our neighbor is also a Spanish as a first language speaker and was asked to interpret and he said he wanted the talks at least a week before stake conference and when the speakers said they didn’t want to accommodate him he said fine I won’t be able to translate for you. I think it is really sad when any foreign language branch is attached to an English speaking ward/stake and we don’t find ways to make sure they receive the message clearly and not just by the spirit alone. But that’s my opinion.
Maybe for you public speaking isn’t scary but that is not the case for everyone and a little presumptuous for you to think. My mother stopped accepting requests to give talks as her blood pressure would go through the roof and then take days to correct, sometimes with a visit to the doctor. My father finally told her it was not worth her health.
In addition, not everyone has endless amounts of time to write and prepare for a talk. Take single mothers that work full time, have several children, attending school school themselves and holding down multiple church callings. If someone doesn’t have a good experience in a sacrament meeting listening to the talks given the sole responsibility lies with them. They did not spiritually prepare to listen to the Holy Ghost or to receive the messages presented.
The sole responsibility does not lie with the listener if the speaker isn’t teaching something of value. The speaker has the responsibility to be prepared, and to carry the Spirit. Unprepared speakers don’t carry the Spirit. The listener has the responsibility to listen with the Spirit. It takes two to tango.
D&C 50:21-22 Therefore, why is it that ye cannot understand and know, that he that receiveth the word by the Spirit of truth receiveth it as it is preached by the Spirit of truth?
Wherefore, he that preacheth and he that receiveth, understand one another, and both are aedified and brejoice together.
As a convert to the church I disagree- the first time I was asked to give a talk, 25 years old in a silent singles ward, I was incredibly nervous- and as a convert you always doubt your knowledge, and you never want to say something that isn’t correct. I read my talk word for word off a piece of paper- that I had practiced over and over and over again for 2 weeks to a clock. I DON”T feel my talk was any less spiritual than any other talks that day. Its unfortunate that you prefer hearing a talk one way and not another- I’m pretty sure the spirit is in both.
I agree with Katie. Public speaking is a huge phobia for many people, and a skill that not everyone possesses. Reading a talk does not mean it is a bad talk, or that the Spirit can’t accompany it. That said, I would much rather have someone stand up and read a well-considered talk, that stand up and just “wing it.”
I think converts have a greater challenge in this, because those raised in the church have been standing up and speaking from the time they are youngsters in Primary. Few places in the world offer as much public speaking experience as growing up in the church.
I always write out my talks because when I am touched by the Spirit, I say some very meaningful things – not my own words but words that are given to me. I have a notebook with every talk I have every written. I think it will be something valuable to my posterity to know how Grandma felt about sacred and not so sacred things. I do not however read my talks. I highlight each part of my talk to keep me focused and I also mark things that can be omitted if necessary.
One Easter I was asked to speak so I had a great talk prepared, sat on the stand only to have a member of the bishopric tell me that he forgot that a member of the HC was speaking. He forgot to tell me I wouldn’t be speaking. I saved that talk and still have it waiting to give another time.
I remember years ago being asked to speak on Easter. I am known to be a loquacious person, but I watched the clock and spoke my assigned 10 minutes. So did the second speaker. Sacrament meeting got out 15 minutes early that day…I am guessing they figured at least one of us would run over. I think the primary teachers were not happy with us that say, either.
In our ward, our bishop will ALWAYS get up and fill any remaining time by adding his own comments and scriptures that came to mind about the talks given.
Several years ago, as bishop, I asked two missionaries (preparing to leave) to offer talks of 15 minutes each. Both were known to be long-winded so I wanted to preclude any problems. Then I would conclude with a few words. The first spoke 4 minutes and the second went 6 and sat down. The second was supposed to have a friend sing a musical number but forgot to tell them where we were. Guess whose sacrament (last meeting) got out 30 minutes early that day?
In cases like that, our Bishop would occasionally call on the missionaries serving in our ward or even some of our Laurels & Priests to come and share their testimony with the ward. That helped the meeting to end pretty close to on time.
I was asked to speak in Stake Conference once for 7 1/2 minutes. I prepared and timed my talk, editing and editing until it was exactly 7 1/2 minutes. The talk that was given was succinct and every word counted. I learned from that experience.
If you are in the bishopric, when asking someone to give a talk, ask them “How many minutes do you need to give a ten minute talk?” 🙂
You forgot to mention the many children who are now antsy because their capacity for sitting still and quietly has now been exceeded. My boys have great internal clocks and once the time for sacrament meeting to end has passed they KNOW it. And then I can no longer pay attention because I’m trying to keep them quiet so as not to disturb the rest of the congregation.
I taught Sunday School as a student at BYU. I remember at a teacher training that one of the Bishopric members told us that once class was supposed to end he was no longer listening–we will have lost him. I’m not saying that that attitude is okay–but I’d say its accurate for at least half of your congregation/class/audience. So I’ve made it a point to always end on time!
Going over is TORTURE for kids…especially those kids that have to use every shred of self control just to hang on for the normally scheduled time. In a move of pure desperation I gathered our kids and took them for a walk around the church one Sunday because the meeting was going way over and they’d long passed their threshhold of control. I was pretty proud of them for trying though.
I always vote to skip the congressional hymn…
I think we should always skip the “congressional hymn”…except on the 4th of July. Thanks for the unintended laugh.
My husband always says it is selfish to take so much time- showing that you think YOUR words and thoughts are more important than someone else’s, someone who as spent as much time as you have preparing and praying for their talk. In our ward, if one person goes too long, we don’t go over time. Rather, the speaker left with no time for a talk will be rescheduled for another day when they can give their full remarks. Whether that is the best choice or not is open for debate. As a 2nd hour teacher, I do appreciate it.
Great point, and I love the idea of rescheduling!
We had that happen in our ward just a couple of weeks ago. And the Bishop stood and smiled at the last speaker and said we’d been fed, and said the 2nd speaker had graciously accepted to come back the following week to speak to us. She just smiled and nodded, she would accept any assignment she was given to do, she’d smile all the way with no complaining about it…she’s so sweet.
Loved the article & comment:
I was the final speaker on a day that a lovely unaware sister droned on for about 45 minutes until about 15 past the hour. She was the only one who couldn’t see and feel the discomfort in the chapel. I remember mentally cutting paragraph by paragraph as she toiled on. I am now known as the guy who gave the shortest sacrament talk ever. 1 sentence and Amen. Total time 10-15 seconds. Got lots of compliments on that talk! 🙂
We had someone do 2 sentences once as well and it was awesome!
I agree! I’ve been both a Sunday School teacher and Relief Society teacher and I feel that a lesson should end on time–even if that means cutting out some material I’ve prepared. If you go late there are plenty of people looking at the clock rather than listening and you make it so the song the music leader has prepared gets cut. And if Primary is released before you end Relief Society, get ready to have a bunch of kids open the door searching for their moms and then slamming it as they realize you’re not finished. Not exactly a great way to end the lesson on a spiritual, uplifting note.
Another great point! And how timely as I speak in Sacrament meeting TODAY! I promise to end right on the button. I always write my talks with several optional parts especially when I’m speaking last as I am today. No way to know how much time I will have.
I also remember clearly when I was the Gospel Doctrine teacher I would literally grieve as the speaker went over into Sunday School time and I literally sat with a marker Xing out parts of my lesson I had clearly hoped to include.
Whew great reminder I’m speaking in Sacrament meeting today. I always write my talks with several optional parts so I can edit (I’m the final speaker) as I see how long the first 2 speakers take. And I do remember when I was teaching Gospel Doctrine class I would sometimes full out grieve over those things I had felt the need to include in my lesson that I was X-ing out with a marker as the Sacrament speaker went on and on. I promise I’ll end on the button today!
So, I can’t help but notice that you and Sandee have the same remarks in the same places…seriously, it only needed to be said once